any tips on web designing

[josefiligan]

any tips for web design techniques and coding standards in programming?

[Rick Bull]

Yep:


Always make sure your HTML pages validate using the W3C's valiator at http://validator.w3.org/
Use CSS to make your page look nice (layout) and use HTML purely for content and validate your CSS at http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
Visit http://www.w3.org/ for the official guidlines
Try to avoid using tables for layout - you can usually use <div> and CSS for that
Use Mozilla (http://www.mozilla.org/) as your main testing browser as it has the best support for standards, then if you want you can add little bug fixes for the other browsers


There are loads of other things too but making your pages validate and trying to use CSS instead of layout tags (such as <font>) are probably the most important.

[Cander]

http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/

go there to learn what NOT to do...like stupid blinking text and clashing colors that some people like to overuse which can cause epileptic seizures! Never thought looking at web pages could be bad for your health did you? :D

Dont overuse 'cool' things. Meaning all the overused dhtml and javascript junk some people just stuff into their web pages because it 'looks cool'. Meanwhile slower connection people takes a long time to load and render your page. And navigation becomes a nightmare. Not to mention some are just plain annoying like these crappy floating images that are bouncing around in the web browser.

;)

[Rick Bull]

Cander saying that remeinded me also use JavaScript if you like to enchance your pages, as long as they don't hide any content, like don't make a navigation menu that only works if the user has JavaScript, but you can use it to add a little interactivity to your page.

And how come my site isn't on that web pages that suck site? :D

[trojjer]

Those ANNOYING new floating DHTML ads!!! ARGH... Some of them never close!

[Pc_Madness]

lol, you haven't seen my site, its a shocker...

Also, to do blinking text u do
<blink> </blink>

Yeah??

I can never get it 2 work...

[Rick Bull]

<blink> only works in Netscape if I remember correctly - it's one of their proprietary tags. If you want blinking text you need to use style:


<p style="text-decoration:blink;">This text should blink, except in IE - surprise surprise!</p>

[trojjer]

I suppose in IE, the only way to get blinking text is to repeatedly change the text color to match the bgcolor, using a <span>, and DHTML/Javascript...

This code would do the job in both IE and NN - I think (assuming that the bgColor of the page body is the same as the region where the text is placed (modify if necessary, of course)):

<span id="blinkingText" style="color:white;"><b>NEW!</b></span>

<script language="javascript"><!--
var bgCol=document.body.[style.]b[ack]g[round]Color;
// color toggle function
function colorToggle(unhide_color) {
var current_color=([document. (NN)]blinkingText.[style. (IE)]color!=unhide_color) ? unhide_color : bgCol;
[document. (NN)]blinkingText.[style. (IE)]color=current_color;

//You can either continuously call this function via the setInterval method, to save a little typing; or go for the traditional setTimeout...

//setTimeout("colorToggle('"+unhide_color+"');",2000);
}

//setTimeout("colorToggle('white');",1000); - ("setTimeout" trigger)

setInterval("colorToggle('white');",2000);

P.S: Or, even easier, you could just toggle the visibility attribute - duh! Ah well - I suppose you could add to this code, to make a "rainbow effect" or something...

[trojjer]

It appears that all of the US "color" in programming languages today have converted me!!! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo - how can this be?! I'm a "die-hard" Brit...

P.S: Actually - I've kinda lost my Geordie (NE UK) accent & dialect a bit, like Sting...

[The Hobo]

What's wrong with using tables? :rolleyes:

[Rick Bull]

You could use visibility instead of changing the colour, as if you had a background image it wouldn't be invisible.

And there's nothing wrong with using tables if it makes sense when linearised (spelling?!), e.g. it looks OK in a blind browser. But why use tables when there is a much better alternative, i.e. CSS. You can design your page, then at a later date shift your menu from the left to the right on all pages, just by changing two lines in one file, rather than editing every table on every page. Depends also if you're really worried about your page looking exactly the same on a version 3 browser as a version 6 browser.

[trojjer]

I mean, come on now - I bet hardly anyone has a browser less than version 4; not to mention 3...

[The Hobo]

Originally posted by Rick Bull
You could use visibility instead of changing the colour, as if you had a background image it wouldn't be invisible.

And there's nothing wrong with using tables if it makes sense when linearised (spelling?!), e.g. it looks OK in a blind browser. But why use tables when there is a much better alternative, i.e. CSS. You can design your page, then at a later date shift your menu from the left to the right on all pages, just by changing two lines in one file, rather than editing every table on every page. Depends also if you're really worried about your page looking exactly the same on a version 3 browser as a version 6 browser.

CSS isn't going to make your page look exactly the same in every browser, because every browser has different types of implimentation of CSS. Same with HTML.

[trojjer]

Here is a refined version of the IE blinking text code from before:

<span id="blinkingText">This text will blink in intervals of 500ms</span>

<script><!--
var spanStyle=blinkingText.style;
setInterval("spanStyle.visibility=(spanStyle.visibility=='visible') ? 'hidden' : 'visible';",500);
--></script>

I would do a browser detecting script first, which decides whether to just use the CSS blink property/tag, or the above code; using conditionals.

P.S: An advantage of this script is that you can set the blink interval - so it could just be tweaked for both browsers, regardless.

[punkpie_uk]

I've got one... don't use Flash

[Rick Bull]

Originally posted by The Hobo
CSS isn't going to make your page look exactly the same in every browser, because every browser has different types of implimentation of CSS. Same with HTML.

That's what I meant. Use tables if you want your pages to look exactly (or near enough the same) in all browsers, even the really old ones. My fault I didn't word it very well :p

[The Hobo]

Originally posted by Rick Bull
That's what I meant. Use tables if you want your pages to look exactly (or near enough the same) in all browsers, even the really old ones. My fault I didn't word it very well :p

Yeah, and even that wont work if you try to get too fancy. Borders, backgrounds, color...everyone seems to have their own way of implimenting it. So it really sucks when a page looks beautiful in IE, Mozilla, Netscape 6...then you look at it in other browsers and it looks like thrown up oatmeal. :(

[Rick Bull]

That is annoying, but personally I'm not too bothered as long as the content is readable. Hopefully the older browsers are on their way out, and we can use the same code to get the same result soon. Doubt it though ;)

[Pc_Madness]

Well, so far I've had some aggressive posting from Momad, but feel free to post in the topic I've started in Project Requets to do with the failings off the current Internet(WWW mostly...)

[Cander]

Originally posted by punkpie_uk
I've got one... don't use Flash

Actually Flash is quite aceptable as long as you keep it small and use it for something useful. And also make sure the flash movie can be skipped. I hate going to websites with these huge, ugly , annoying flash movies of just the web site name animated that you cant bypass until the movie is done playing.....stupid!!!

I swear you should have to have a license to do web design. LOL :p

[The Hobo]

And it's really annoying to have to wait an hour for that flash movie to load just so you can watch 30 seconds of the logo spinning around and changing directions.

Flash is okay, just don't make it ugly and don't make it big. And if it's an intro, always have a skip option, like Cander said.

[Rick Bull]

Also I think you should make a alternate version in plain HTML for people without flash.

[The Hobo]

Originally posted by josefiligan
any tips for web design techniques and coding standards in programming?

Oh yeah, Do NoT tAlK lIk3 th15 on yEr w3bP@G3!

I know not many people have done it, but I see it sometimes and it's damn annoying.

[trojjer]

Ah, that's "733t-speak" alright... the language of wannabe Hackers (Script Kiddiez)

[Rick Bull]

http://www.rinkworks.com/dialect/dialectp.cgi?dialect=hckr&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vbforums.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Fs%3D%26threadid%3D201708 ;)

[trojjer]

Just Dialectized this thread - MUAHAHAHAHA...

[The Hobo]

Here's a good example of a bad web page: http://www.angelfire.com/wizard/fiery_awakening/

You can hardly read the text, it has no content, and background images like that are just ugly :(

[Pc_Madness]

Heres another site devoted to bad website design...

http://www.angelfire.com/super/badwebs/

[trojjer]

http://www.angelfire.com/wizard/fiery_awakening/images.hmtl - WTH?! Can't even spell "html" properly!

Unless that's a different run-off from the good ol' language...?

[The Hobo]

You've never heard of hyper markup text language?! :p

[punkpie_uk]

It's because he spends too much time going to the metro centre... (only people from the North-East of englanh will probably get that one ;) )


Actually Flash is quite aceptable as long as you keep it small and use it for something useful.


That's the problem, Flash is exploited too often. People design entire sites in it... which is all well for broadband users, but what about the 56k population?

Plus, I don't the like the idea of the back and forwards buttons been taken away from me...

[trojjer]

NO - I don't go to the MetroCentre too much!

And what the hell is Hyper Markup Text Language?!

I thought there was only Hyper Text Markup Language...

[punkpie_uk]

My family at least once a week, to tell you the truth I got sick of the place when I was younger ;)

I think he was joking :D

[Pc_Madness]

Originally posted by punkpie_uk
It's because he spends too much time going to the metro centre... (only people from the North-East of englanh will probably get that one ;) )



That's the problem, Flash is exploited too often. People design entire sites in it... which is all well for broadband users, but what about the 56k population?

Plus, I don't the like the idea of the back and forwards buttons been taken away from me...

Do we have an approx figures on the total 56K Pop?

[trojjer]

Well - I think they are still the majority of 'net users.

Count me in...

[Pc_Madness]

Yep, me as well, although I have a cable conn. in the next room :D

[The Hobo]

Originally posted by trojjer
And what the hell is Hyper Markup Text Language?!

I thought there was only Hyper Text Markup Language...

It was just a joke ;)

[trojjer]

LOL - I had my suspicions...