3D Engine

[Zaphod64831]

I know this is a fairly large request, but I was wondering if anyone could show me how to create some very simple 3D worlds. I have several ideas for some small-time games but I need a small 3D engine for them.

[ron hunter]

I've been working with the 3D engine obtainable at

http://www.goodnet.com/~andrewa/vbasic/prometheus/prometheus.htm

[SteveCRM]

I've seen that a few times. It went too fast on my computer. You walked at light speed :( . So I never used it.

[ron hunter]

very easy to slow it down in code!!!!

[Zaphod64831]

I've done a lot more searching and I've finally found a commercial-quality 3D engine, open source! I'm downloading the source and demo now, but I plan on really delving into this one and thought that you might be interested in it, ron.

You can find it at http://www.genesis3d.com

[Edited by Zaphod64831 on 06-20-2000 at 01:35 PM]

I had an example of how to make a really good one in VB. I'll check and see if I still have it.

[ron hunter]

Zaphod,
Let me know how you get on with Genesis. I'm a long way down the road with the code I'm working on now so I dont want to change course. I'll have a look at Genesis and see what it has to offer.

Thanx

[Paul282]

Hey Ron,

I like the 3d Engine!! I tried putting the larger textures in and all.

Great work

[ron hunter]

Thanx Paul,
But I'm not the author!! a guy called Andrew Ayers is the person who deserves all the credit! I have just been ammending the code to suit my particular requirements. I'll post my contibution when its completed.

Ron

I can't seem to get Genesis working. When I try to run a MAP, i get an error. Has this happened to anyone?

What's the error you get megatron? i was with genesis3d (C++) for like 6 months but then I moved back to VB 6 once I heard DX7s for VB.... but I might be able to help you out, what kinda error is it? what does it say, one thing u need to make sure that you put all the texture files and the bsp files and any other associated map files in the same directory.. also uhh make sure u got all the driver dll files (there's 3) in the same directory as the executable...

It just says that Illegal Operation Message that usually happens when something crashes.

There's a lot of different possibilities... for example u get that when u use a glide wrapper and the glide system doesn't work correctly with the glide wrapper, if u have a glide wrapper, then uhh delete the glide2x.dll... also if your executable is using a prefs.ini file open it up and change driver to "("... there could be other possibilities.. for example incompatible genesis.dll or other things... I don't know, try a couple of things..

I used try playing around with it but I stopped about 3 months ago.

Have you made any worlds on it yet?

[SYAlam]

Genesis3D is an incredible engine. The programming API isn't that tough, youve just gotta work at it. The only problem I am having is designing the world. I'm not a level designer, so I don't even go there. I just sit and program for hours, thats what you call a programmer badass. Heheh.

yes megatron, as I stated.. I was working with it for like 5 or 6 months.. It's really not that hard.. If you understand C++ it's good to go with that one.. not much documentation is available for the VB Wrapper.. but it's not hard to use either.. I did once make a level and fly around it.. it's not hard.. but i haven't worked with it for a long time so I'm off of it right now..

Yes, I do have good experience in C++. Infact, I got this Engine in a C++ Programmer's Kit. But many other things came in the kit, so I did not have much time to concetrate on 1 item.

[Xero]

I bet Genisis3d is all dandy and stuff, but, I wanna make my OWN awesome 3d engine. So... uhh... where do I start?

[Zaphod64831]

It took a whole TEAM of programmers to create the Genesis3D one, I suggest you take a look at the source and modify it to fit your own needs.

It comes with the source code? Do you have to download it separately or does it come with the engine?

[Paul282]

It's an opensource project, read the license.

In fact, definately read the license in you plan on selling anything to do with it.

[Xero]

So, in other words, a company with only one programmer isn't good... cuz... uh... then... ummm... thats not good because I'm the only programmer and my company is doing a 3d rpg eventually. We already have a story and stuff.

Well, now that I'm on this topic, I've heard everywhere that one programmer isn't enough, but, it doesn't seem that hard with just one. Infact, I think it would be easier! I'll explain it this way: our musician is the same person who does the story. Why is that good? He knows exactly what happens and what emotion the players will feel and what goes on in the game EXACTLY. Because, he made it! So, that way he can take all that knowledge and make songs more accurate to the game's story! Same with programming, I'm developing everything(engine, Ai... everything) and therefor I can understand everything more. I have the "big picture" in my head and every part of the game can relate to another. Thats what I think anyway... heh... as well as hope it works that way :).

[Xero]

Err... ok.. so ya got a point there. I'm not pro in all of those... let alone one... But, I'm gettin there!

Well, we'll wait and see what happens. We'll probably end up needing more programmers. But, hey... study hard and...

Thanks anyway.

...man... i should really get some sleep... 3:22 am...

[LordSteven]

Megatron posts:
"In real software companies, they have experts in every single field. The people have been doing the specific task for years. Are you saying that you are a pro in Graphics, Programming, Music and Sound Effects?"

You have no idea how untrue that statement is. Let's analyze this one:

"real software companies": This term covers any legal company that designs software. You don't have to be a multimillion dollar software company to be defined as a real software company.

"they have experts in every single field": In most cases, this is completely wrong. Most software companies do not work in every field, so they don't have a need to have experts in every field. :)

"Are you saying that you are a pro in Graphics, Programming, Music and Sound Effects?": If you paid attention to what he said, you would have noticed that he mentioned other members of the company. He said he was the only programmer, not the only employee.

To Xero:
Don't let them discourage you. Keep on focus, and just ignore all the negative comments people give you. They just say that because they know that they can't do it. You aren't them. I've even thought of designing my own 3d Engine in DX7, all by myself, and I never once thought "I can't, I'm only one person!". It's just simply not true, you just have to stay on task. I'm not saying it'll be as good as a commercial 3d game like Halflife or anything, but I'm willing to bet it'd turn out better than most VB games.

[Paul282]

Look at it this way.

Xero mentioned musicians. Compare the type of song that can be played my a single artist compared to a band. All single artists have bands, sometimes just contracted for the one off. Today, multi track music can be put together by a single person but pro's making money get outside help for areas which isn't their specialty.

It's not impossible to go it alone, but imagine the difference if three of your bored friends were experts in Graphics, music, and story writing... and they just - "helped out from time to time" for maybe a small share of the profits if there are any.

And going bck to open source, what if other pro's could glance though the code and point out problems which you may or may not consider changing...

It all suddenly makes a sigle person project seem awfully hard.

but it's not impossible.

[Xero]

Ah, I see. My other arguement is that whenever I need help I have a vast variety of resources to go to. I have probably 50 programming sites bookmarked for C++ and Vb. And my favorites ones have forums which are very helpful(such as this one). Thanks for your input Paul282 and LordSteven!

[LordSteven]

Paul282 posts:
"Compare the type of song that can be played my a single artist compared to a band. "

My favorite artist (Nine Inch Nails a.k.a Trent Reznor) does all his music by himself, for the most part, and his music is a lot better than anything else. Doing it alone doesn't show that you're worse, just that you're more talented for not needing the other people and actually getting more sales. Granted, he does hire other musicians for playing live, and he often gets help from other people (more now then before).

[ron hunter]

I remember way back when Zaphod64831 asked about a 3D engine!!!!

LordSteven
"they have experts in every single field": In most cases, this is completely wrong. Most software companies do not work in every field, so they don't have a need to have experts in every field

To be blunt, you're wrong. Most companies do have experts in every field. I have a 1 inch thick book on Game Programming full with 100 interviews from the best Software Companies such as Nintendo, IDSoftware, Electronic Arts and in the interviews, they clearly state that they have experts in every field.

Oh and, by the way, good luck on your 3D Engine. Let me know when you finish.

Xero
I hope I did not influence your decision on making your game. I was merely pointing out what you might be in for by telling you all of the other steps as opposed to other companies.

Megatron's right...

Companies not just prefare self learner programmers, but people who've gone to college and earned a degree and in this case, they preffere Computer Scientists.. they're expert in almost every field from Programming to 3D Math to insides of a computer, the circuitry logic.. so Megatron's right there are people who're experts in everyfield, and if you really do go and read interviews from CEOs or lead programmers of different companies, you'll find out that they have programmers who're also 3D modelers and also are into the music composition field.

LordSteven, If you knew how to program and also were an excelent 3D Modeler and also have some intermediate experience in Music Composition, would a company say that they don't want you cause u know everything? WRONG!! they'd rather take you then the person who only knows how to do programming.

As long as that person has a certificate or an impressive piece of work that shows they are qualified in their specific field, they can be a candidate. And Yes, they will usually place you in whichever catagory you are best in. Not both.

[kiosk77]

OK, I'm interested in this Genesis3D...but don't want to have to learn vc++. Do you have the same capabilities in Visual Basic (please let be so...) and where can I get good info/source code on this ... the only way I can learn is by reverse engineering other people's code. thanks

Genesis is more devoted to C++ than VB. You can probably find good information on it on thier website or from the documentation.
Here is the link again.
http://www.genesis3d.com (I posted the worng URL before. Use the one that WildGhost posted. I just changed mine now)






[Edited by Megatron on 06-28-2000 at 01:26 PM]

[kb244]

if genesis is freeware(well it is open source I would guess) I'd like to know the URL.

Link to genesis3d site is http://www.genesis3d.com

also they have a wraper for VB so it is possible to program genesis3d worlds in VB, cause the whole genesis3d engine is in a DLL file.. I don't remember the URL to their VB wrapper but it should be on the links page on G3D's site.

[SteveCRM]

Hmmmmmmmm.......If seen the genesis engine before. I think I'll get it after reading this post......Thanks guys.