Is MP3 illegal?

[sbasak]

Are MP3 CDs illegal for sale in some countries? Is it that they are legal in some countries and illegal in some other countires?

And why are they illegal at all?

[si_the_geek]

MP3's are not illegal, MP3 CD's are not illegal.

MP3's or MP3 CD's that contain copyrighted material ARE illegal (for distribution at least - most countries are OK if it is for personal use only).

[Pc_Madness]

I can't remember the last time I listened to an MP3 that wasn't illegal.

When you think about it though, were digging our own graves by downloading them..

Eventually they'll stop making the music...

[kleptos]

If they stop making music, they wont get ANY money, at least now they get money from those who dont have computers or want the cd's. Personally music as of late sucks, and isnt worth buying anyways. :(

[Pc_Madness]

Mate... I read in the paper somewhere that said in Europe, about 80 million Music cd's were sold, while the same number of CD-R's were also sold.

The music industry won't just let this keep on happening...apparently Microsoft is going to do something about it on Media Player.. 8?? 9?? What are we up 2?

[Pc_Madness]

if you do the math, if we average out the prices to say about $15 per cd, X that by 80million. Thats alot of money there missing out on.

People don't work if they don't get paid.

[sbasak]

I don't understand why so much people are against MP3? I think it's music industry's business tactics to make people fool by saying MP3 is illegal. The main point is that, since there are so many songs that would fit in an MP3 CD, the music artists fear that price of music CDs will get drastically lower, so their profit will be less. That's the single reason why they cry foul over MP3 or similar format!

And you say of copying? Well, any normal music CD can also be copied very easily. So, what's the problem with MP3 only?

[kleptos]

I look at it like this, i wouldnt have paid for the CD anyways, so they arent really loosing my money. They never had it.

[Pc_Madness]

lol, interesting theory.... :D

Are you talking about 5 finger discounts kleptos? :rolleyes:

[msimmons]

What about blank cassette tapes? People have been 'ripping' albums to them before CD's were even heard of, this is nothing new.
Michael

[kleptos]

Not at all, i am refering to MP3's and the music industry, its similar to software piracy. If i dont buy the cd, but d/l it, they arent loosing anything, because i wouldnt have bought the cd either way, so no money is lost. Thats just my opinion. I buy the cd's from the bands i like and i know they arent gonna fold from MP3's, they post their own MP3's on their site. So no harm done. But by people saying they loose all this money, they have to think, without MP3's, would all these cd's have been sold anyways?

[Pc_Madness]

Originally posted by kleptos
....they have to think, without MP3's, would all these cd's have been sold anyways?

Thats not a very good way of thinking of it...Without MP3's, they would still be making money, and we would still be getting decent songs/costumes/video clips, etc. Now they have to waste their money on trying to beat CD Pirates... trust me, they aren't made of money.. and what will the world be like without music? Your little sister, who can't sing for crap, could become a pop princess.

:eek:



What about blank cassette tapes? People have been 'ripping' albums to them before CD's were even heard of, this is nothing new.
Michael

Cassettes are terrible quality, although I'm pretty sure the Music Industry would'n't have been to happy about those either.

The problem with Mp3's is that there such great quality, and realively small to download.. about 1min = 1mb..

And with Wma, its 1min = 0.5mb

Anyways, I'm off to bed, we'll continue this debate another day :D

[kleptos]

If they wanna stop making music, thats fine, then what are the musicians gonna do? Work at some fast food place making minimum wage? Go for it.... I can make my own music with my cmputer, i dont NEED them. I dont mind them, but i dont really NEED them.

[Zaei]

Originally posted by kleptos
If they wanna stop making music, thats fine, then what are the musicians gonna do? Work at some fast food place making minimum wage? Go for it.... I can make my own music with my cmputer, i dont NEED them. I dont mind them, but i dont really NEED them.

I have to agree. We could rip them off so bad, and they couldnt stop making the music. You dont get paid if you dont work.

Besides, 80 million CD-Rs does NOT mean that all of them went to music CDs, or MP3 CDs. There are a LOT of uses for CD-Rs besides stealing stuff.

Though, if you want to get technical, using an MP3 decoder in a commercial project without a license IS illegal.

Z.

[sbasak]

Why not music companies themselves sell MP3 CDs?
Though they might make some less profit, but then everyone should be happy.

Law is an imperfect system to provide practical solution to many difficult problems!

Branding something as illegal because somebody can't make high profit is itself ILLEGAL.

So, while they say losing money on MP3, music artists are actually pulling consumers legs!

I like MP3 CDs because while on holiday, I can take all my favorite music albums on only 1 or 2 CDs!

By the way, when music industry releases their CDs, they already assume at least some illegal copies will be made from them and they price the CD including that amount (this is true, believe me).

If music industry claims that they will have to stop making music because of MP3, then I think they should stop it!

[AirScape17]

Aren't MP3's at 128kbps or less legal to download?? Isn't that why Kazaa hasn't been shutdown already??

Anyway, isn't it the small-time artists that are REALLY loosing money from MP3's??

[sbasak]

The artists should get paid for their quality of work. Not for the format in which people listen their creation!

[kleptos]

Most music today is stolen from older songs anyways, i bet the new artists arent paying for the crap they stole.

[markman]

Originally posted by Pc_Madness
I can't remember the last time I listened to an MP3 that wasn't illegal.

Is djkeda's stuff copyrighted?

[Zaei]

Originally posted by AirScape17
Aren't MP3's at 128kbps or less legal to download?? Isn't that why Kazaa hasn't been shutdown already??

This doesnt make sense... And besides, if you couldnt download >= 128k off Kazaa, hardly anyone would use it.

Z.

[chrisjk]

Originally posted by AirScape17
Aren't MP3's at 128kbps or less legal to download?? Isn't that why Kazaa hasn't been shutdown already??urm, no. Kazaa has not been shut down because it cannot be shutdown. There are no central servers, it is purely peer to peer. When you download something you are directly connected to the computer of the person you are downloading from.

[Muddy]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,61178,00.html

:D :D :D :D

[siyan]

if the ****** record companies would stop taking like 99% of the profits and give more money to artists, then it'd be good. They shoudl give at least half, I mean the artists ARE the source of the music :rolleyes: Then they could charge less, resulting in more sales and happier artists.

Of course, since they stand to take a lower cut of the profits, they wouldn't ever do it :rolleyes:

If compaq sells a computer (unlikely :D), they don't exactly make a 50% profit margin ....

-C

[chrisjk]

Originally posted by siyan
If compaq sells a computer (unlikely :D), they don't exactly make a 50% profit margin ....
world's largest, they must make the odd sale here and there ;)

Compaq's margin is probably at a guess 7-10%. Smaller PC manfs. have to make do with more like 2-3% since they can't buy in enough bulk components. A company I know of on about 2% margin went bust few years back...cut throat business.

But, I digress

[Pc_Madness]

Down under they've just releases these machines which can make an exact copy of a music cd... or they have a list of songs that you can choose from. At the moment, there perfectly legal as far as I can tell...

[MidgetsBro]

MP3 is the only, and I repeat, ONLY reason I have ever bought a CD. The only music albums I have ever bought were Metallica albums. I bought every Metallica album out as of today, and the only reason was because I downloaded some of their stuff from Napster. If I didn't, then I would have never bought a CD. The last time I purchased a CD, it was Metallica's S&M and it was at least 2 years ago. Nothing else out there is worth the $15. I think that MP3 is the future... I like music, but it's not worth paying for.

[sbasak]

Wow, so many replies.........

Anyway, my original question was
if MP3 is legal and so popular, why don't music shops sell MP3 CDs in the open market?

In some countries (like India and neighboring countries) it is very easy to buy MP3 CDs from open market. But in Europe (at least in UK/Ireland) I couldn't find any shop which sells MP3 CDs (Though shops are selling MP3 CD players). I don't know anything about rest of the world.

Any comment?

[Pc_Madness]

Mp3's are illegal.. if they contain copyrighted stuff. So if a business started selling cd's with mp3's, they would get charged with... what? Copyright breaches, theft, ... what else??

Don't confuse MP3's with the player, by the way.......

[sbasak]

That's the point I'm trying to mention. In some places Music Companies themselves selling copyrighted album in MP3 format, so that they can bring the price down per CD (same price but more songs) and thus enable more and more people buy their products and thus higher profit. If prices of CDs come down, no body will bother to copy them anymore! So, both consumers and industry will get benefit.

[si_the_geek]

The idea of MP3 CD players is that you can create your own CD's from your collection - not get them from your friends etc.

The countries you say sell MP3 CD's would most likely be illegal (just like the software CD's you can buy in the region).

If the companies that originally sold the music made their own MP3 CD's that would be fine, but because there is a lack of people with the players they wouldn't get as much profit.

[Pc_Madness]

Well.. are you sure thats the company doing that?? More likely its someone pretending to be them.

[sbasak]

In India, music systems (which can play normal CD, MP3, Video CD and audio cassettes as well) are available for £40-£80 (or $60-$120). People there nowadays don't buy a music system which can't play MP3 CDs!

For local brands I'm quite sure that they themselves sell their music in MP3 format. However, I'm unsure whether the international brands they sell CDs in MP3 format is genuine or not. The packaging is at least so impressive it appears that they are genuine! And cost is so low that people tend to buy them easily (imagine paying £2 (or $3) for over 200 songs track)! The shops there even offer exchange facility if you found your CD faulty!

Because of socio-economy structure in most Asian countries, I think MP3 CDs will continue to sell there at least (whether it is legal or illegal) and will do brisk business in future as well.

[kleptos]

From the way i look at it, if i buy the cd, i can make my own MP3's, thats legal, if i share them or let others copy them, that would be illegal. I purchased the damn cd for the 15 bux, i will do with it what i please, and if i wanna copy it for my car or make MP3's, then thats what im gonna do. Its like a car, if i buy it, i can do to it what i want... This is my opinion however, and does not express the views of anyone else....

[Evil_Giraffe]

I read about a law that's trying to be introduced in (i think) America that will not only make "space-shifting" (creating a copy of the album for personal use in different format e.g. CD to tape, CD to mp3 ...) illegal, but also "time-shifting" (e.g. when you record something off the TV to watch later in the week). Scary times indeed when the laws are being pushed by the entertainment giants rather than consumer practice.

[kleptos]

They cant stop it, there is no way to stop MP3's, no way to stop anyone from recording DVD's or VHS or TV. There is no way to stop any of it. Even a law put in place wont stop anyone.

[-_MAD-HATTAH_-]

In my eyes, most people dont really do it for the fans/fun...Think about it. If you were an artist/band would you continue your hard work for nothing? Of course it makes people happy and all but the artist isnt really getting much from it. How would they live? Burger King? McDonalds? I think if enough people continue to download the music less cd's will be sold. Therefore the music industry will lose heaps of money. Hence: they won't be able to sign artists.


-Just a guess :D

[MidgetsBro]

I rather hand an artist $20 for a CD than pay $10 to a record company that will pay the artist about 1/100th of the profit. It's the record companies that are making it not worth buying a CD. They are greedy bastards. If we got rid of record companies and more artists released their albums on their own (It doesn't cost that much to have a simple album created without a record contract, and if the artist is good, then they will regain their original losses in the first place, and most likely start making a hefty profit) then people would be more willing to pay for CDs because the artists are sure to charge less since the record companies are the ones that take all the profits...

That ramble made no sense... sorry for anyone that read it.

In conclusion, f*** terrorists.

Thank you and goodnight.

[JoshT]

OK, suppose I become a musician and want to record an album. Assuming I can write and sing all the songs myself, how much would it cost me to produce a real CD and distribute enough copies to make enough to earn a living?

[nabeels786]

Originally posted by MidgetsBro
MP3 is the only, and I repeat, ONLY reason I have ever bought a CD. The only music albums I have ever bought were Metallica albums. I bought every Metallica album out as of today, and the only reason was because I downloaded some of their stuff from Napster. If I didn't, then I would have never bought a CD. The last time I purchased a CD, it was Metallica's S&M and it was at least 2 years ago. Nothing else out there is worth the $15. I think that MP3 is the future... I like music, but it's not worth paying for.

same exact thign here.
except, i bought they albums before mp3

most bands make most of their money off of touring. so i dont buy cds, i support them and not the record companies by seeing them live

[DiGiTaIErRoR]

In theory you could make a low enough quality copy that fair-use would apply. The level of the quality would be for the courts to decide.

If people could buy CD's for a reasonable price then more people would be happy to buy them.

It's simply, they pay a few cents for each cd, slap another few cents of ink on it, add another few cents for the jewel case and jackets. That maybe costs at most 25 cents/CD. Then charge $15.

That's 99.93% profit/cd. They're just greedy. They're getting what's coming to them.

And any established band could easily make a website and sell their music directly to the consumer for $5-10 a cd, and make tons of money.

It's the recording industry that needs to be reformed, not society. We're being ripped off and we're not gonna take it anymore!

Like movies, they cost $8-12 to goto the 'prime-time' show.

Insanity!

And if you say $40 million isn't enough for the actors then you're insane.

America is about capitalism. Which sadly these companies turn into greed.

[sbasak]

Nice to see so many replies..... :cool:

The lawmakers are not Gods. They often have unholy nexus with the industrialists and implement the law for their favor, not for common people.

So, I think most people are in favor of MP3... :)

[si_the_geek]

Originally posted by MidgetsBro
I rather hand an artist $20 for a CD than pay $10 to a record company that will pay the artist about 1/100th of the profit. It's the record companies that are making it not worth buying a CD. They are greedy bastards. If we got rid of record companies and more artists released their albums on their own (It doesn't cost that much to have a simple album created without a record contract, and if the artist is good, then they will regain their original losses in the first place, and most likely start making a hefty profit) then people would be more willing to pay for CDs because the artists are sure to charge less since the record companies are the ones that take all the profits...

That ramble made no sense... sorry for anyone that read it.

In conclusion, f*** terrorists.

Thank you and goodnight.

I agree, I know a few bands & dance-music acts who make a decent living from making & selling their own CD's, unfortunately it can take a while to save up enough money to get your first production run - and then you have to worry about making sure you sell it.

The best I have seen at doing this sort of thing is Lab4 (http://www.Lab4.com), who I have been seeing live/buying from for a couple of years. They sell CD albums themselves for £10 (usual shop price of a CD is about £15).

Unfortunately to get enough money to carry on they need to constantly tour, and play live twice a week (trust me, their show is completely exhausting to just watch!).


Very few bands could get to this stage without support or contacts in the record industry. Granted, the artists don't get much money from CD's, but unless CD's are bought then record companies will not give them the help they need to continue to make music. I personally but CD's after i hear the music, MP3's are a good way of hearing it (along with radio/in-shop listening posts)

:eek: how long is this??

ps: don't just blame just the record companies for the lack of money paid to artists - lots of other people take their share of the profits too (especially shops - typically 1/3 of the cost of the final product).

[JoshT]

Originally posted by DiGiTaIErRoR
If people could buy CD's for a reasonable price then more people would be happy to buy them.

It's simply, they pay a few cents for each cd, slap another few cents of ink on it, add another few cents for the jewel case and jackets. That maybe costs at most 25 cents/CD. Then charge $15.

That's 99.93% profit/cd. They're just greedy. They're getting what's coming to them.


This is total BS - the cost of raw materials is only a tiny portion of what it actually costs to make a product. You have recording studio time, with equipment that needs to be maintained, technicians that need to be paid. Is a jacket only a blank sheet of paper? You need people that want to earn a living by writing the text, doing the graphic design, making the art. And then you have distribution - say the CD is made in New York and you live in California - how are you going to get this 25 cent CD? You need truck drivers and wholesalers and warehouse workers and retailers. And we haven't even considered the artists themselves, yet, or marketing and promotion (you need people to know about stuff before they'll buy it).

Remember there is no such thing as a manufacturer selling direct to the consumer. If I make a product, and I want to sell directly to the consumer, I'm not eliminating retail, I'm taking up the responsibilities and costs of retail for myself. There are good reasons Coke or Pepsi only make the soda syrup themselves - it wasn't worth it for them to do everything themselves.

Anyway, as far as .mp3 goes, its just a file format - there's nothing inheritantly legal or illegal in that. It was convenient to download - if bandwidth were faster, we might be hearing the debate of .wav files. And it's lossy compression, so using it does degrade the music. If anything, music for sale should be at the highest quality if can - I wouldn't buy a commercial CD full of MP3s. I do buy CDs and don't really download music, and I'd rather listen to a real CD on my sound system, than a bunch of less than CD Quality MP3s on my computer, regardless of whether or not I can actually hear the difference. Same reason I dumped VHS for DVD, even though it can't improve the acting or the storyline. I don't think $15 is an unreasonable price for a CD.

[The Hobo]

I only read half the first page of this thread, but I just have to say that if artists stop making music because of Mp3s, it's just going to cause new artists to rise.

Music just isn't going to stop. If all the famous artists go on strike, it's just going to allow others to take their places.

[SteveCRM]

I've never been a big music guy...so I don't own many CD's, but why don't some people think downloading copywrited mp3's is illegal???? You are stealing copywrited material! Thats all there iis to it, theres no "iit should be free, or it should belong to the people"....it belongs to the artist, and you steal it by downloading it...many people don't want to think about it because they do it themselves, but it is illegal. the mp3 format itself isn't, but listening to copywrited info on an mp3 is illegal :)

[The Hobo]

Originally posted by SteveCRM
I've never been a big music guy...so I don't own many CD's, but why don't some people think downloading copywrited mp3's is illegal???? You are stealing copywrited material! Thats all there iis to it, theres no "iit should be free, or it should belong to the people"....it belongs to the artist, and you steal it by downloading it...many people don't want to think about it because they do it themselves, but it is illegal. the mp3 format itself isn't, but listening to copywrited info on an mp3 is illegal :)

Have you always drive the speed limit? Have you ever see a cool pen on someone's desk and taken it? Have you ever walked across a street in an undesignated area? Have you ever accidently dropped some trash outside and not picked it up?

...

[SteveCRM]

of course...but it doesn't mean it's legal, I just felt the author of this thread feels that no one should buy cd's and that all mp3's are legal. I just wanted to show that if everyone just downloads libraries and libraries of mp3's, it is illegal.


and..
Originally posted by The Hobo
Have you ever see a cool pen on someone's desk and taken it?

a cool pen??? :confused: :p

[DiGiTaIErRoR]

How about that fact that now, more than ever, CD sells are at an all-time high?

And they only still increase.

Talk to the artist, they know.

[JoshT]

CD sales were at an all time high while the economy was booming a few years ago, along with sales of everything else. Prove that they still are. I've heard anecdotes of little records near college campuses going out of business.

[DiGiTaIErRoR]

Fred Durst, Playboy.

They had an interview with him, and asked him if technology is hurting CD sales.

To paraphrase:

"...technology is like medicine, you just have to sit back and let it runs its course, and in the end it'll all work out..."

He goes on to say his CD sales aren't hurting.

Perhaps bands like Metallica, which wasted away their money and are after companies for the soul purpose of greed. But they weren't losing money anyway.

[DiGiTaIErRoR]

Originally posted by JoshT
This is total BS - the cost of raw materials is only a tiny portion of what it actually costs to make a product. You have recording studio time, with equipment that needs to be maintained, technicians that need to be paid. Is a jacket only a blank sheet of paper? You need people that want to earn a living by writing the text, doing the graphic design, making the art. And then you have distribution - say the CD is made in New York and you live in California - how are you going to get this 25 cent CD? You need truck drivers and wholesalers and warehouse workers and retailers. And we haven't even considered the artists themselves, yet, or marketing and promotion (you need people to know about stuff before they'll buy it).

Remember there is no such thing as a manufacturer selling direct to the consumer. If I make a product, and I want to sell directly to the consumer, I'm not eliminating retail, I'm taking up the responsibilities and costs of retail for myself. There are good reasons Coke or Pepsi only make the soda syrup themselves - it wasn't worth it for them to do everything themselves.

Anyway, as far as .mp3 goes, its just a file format - there's nothing inheritantly legal or illegal in that. It was convenient to download - if bandwidth were faster, we might be hearing the debate of .wav files. And it's lossy compression, so using it does degrade the music. If anything, music for sale should be at the highest quality if can - I wouldn't buy a commercial CD full of MP3s. I do buy CDs and don't really download music, and I'd rather listen to a real CD on my sound system, than a bunch of less than CD Quality MP3s on my computer, regardless of whether or not I can actually hear the difference. Same reason I dumped VHS for DVD, even though it can't improve the acting or the storyline. I don't think $15 is an unreasonable price for a CD.

Ok, so you're saying $15 a cd, and it sells 100 million copies.

That's $1,500,000,000. 1.5 billion dollars covers those costs atleast a hundred fold.

[JoshT]

Originally posted by DiGiTaIErRoR
Ok, so you're saying $15 a cd, and it sells 100 million copies.

That's $1,500,000,000. 1.5 billion dollars covers those costs atleast a hundred fold.

How many CDs sell 100 million copies?, and how do you know how much a CD will sell ahead of time? You need to set the price before you've sold any copies (and there's two schools of thought on setting prices). It's a gamble. And the $15 is the MSRP, the retail price. The procucer is getting less. I don't know too much about the CD industry, but a couple of years ago, I remember seeing that comic shops good get a VHS tape that has a MSRP of $30 for about $18 from the distributer, who must be buying the tape from the manufacturer for even less than that.

And the whole point to being a business is to make a profit, not tp break even. In fact, I've read good arguments that it is unethical for a business to do everything legally possible to make the most profits. And anyone can invest in public companies and benefit from these profits.

[DiGiTaIErRoR]

Greed is evil.

That is all it is.

[JoshT]

Define Greed.

[DiGiTaIErRoR]

Making beyond a reasonable profit.

$40 million for an actor in a movie. GREED.

It's stupidity, and the american public pays the cost of corporate greed. Instead of standing up to it, they just encourage it.

Capitalism is greed.

[JoshT]

What's a "reasonable profit". It is unethical for a company not to make the most legal profit it can. Company executives can get sued over this.

Greed is all these kids wanting to get their music for free. Something for nothing.

[DiGiTaIErRoR]

Data should be free. If they want the CD they should have to pay for it.

This is the principle of linux.

They charge for the materials, not the data.

[JoshT]

Why should data be free if the creator of the data doesn't want it to be? Music existed long before the concept of data or computers.

[DiGiTaIErRoR]

Data technically has no value.

[DiGiTaIErRoR]

Originally posted by JoshT
Why should data be free if the creator of the data doesn't want it to be? Music existed long before the concept of data or computers.

Data has always existed.

The number 2 is datum.

2+3=4 is data.

[si_the_geek]

Originally posted by DiGiTaIErRoR
Data technically has no value.
does that mean you'll give away all the code/programs you'll ever write?

if so.. how will you pay rent etc?

[DiGiTaIErRoR]

Originally posted by si_the_geek
does that mean you'll give away all the code/programs you'll ever write?

if so.. how will you pay rent etc?

Sourcecode and the result are two different things.

Programs perform functions. They have a value. Sourcecode can be edited to allow for further functionality.

[sbasak]

The debate is going off track! ;-)

1. If MP3s are 128kbps/16bit/Stereo (or better) then its quality is hardly is considered similar to that of CD quality audio. Researchers have proved that human ear can't detect difference between CD quality and MP3s coded at that rate (or higher). In future better techonology will further compress sound (eg. MP4 or WMA have done already).

2. Whether $15 is cheap or expensive depends on how much you earn! Not all people live in USA. There are lots people who earns less than $10 per day! Demanding $15/CD from such people are NOT ETHICAL rather it should be considered as EXPLOITATION by the greeds of artists et. al. If you demand such price from these people, they will not pay rather they will invent their own way to listen the music (ie. convert several CDs to MP3 and thus reducing the price).

3. MP3 CDs are much easier to carry (1 MP3 CD is equivalent of 10 Audio CDs at least)!

4. If music industry sees that consumers are willing to pay $15/CD they will increase the price to $20 in next album. If no body buys, then they will be forced to reduce price to $10! So, it's simple economics!

5. Buy CDs of your favorite rock artists/bands and you will see that at least 40% of tracks are already available in other CDs (ie. repeated)! Do you think it is right? Aren't they charging you twice for the same track? Are they ethical?

6. Until recently CD writing/copying techonology was not easily available (at least at your desktop computers). So, music industry charged CDs at their will. Now, because of MP3s and CD copying became so easy, that they have started crying foul. Is this fair?

7. If something is copyrighted, then copying it by any means (either CDA or MP3 or WMA) is illegal. If someone says that music industry has to wind up their business just because of MP3s, that allegation it is simple bull****!

These are all my personal views, anyway.

[JoshT]

Originally posted by sbasak
The debate is going off track! ;-)

1. If MP3s are 128kbps/16bit/Stereo (or better) then its quality is hardly is considered similar to that of CD quality audio. Researchers have proved that human ear can't detect difference between CD quality and MP3s coded at that rate (or higher). In future better techonology will further compress sound (eg. MP4 or WMA have done already).

2. Whether $15 is cheap or expensive depends on how much you earn! Not all people live in USA. There are lots people who earns less than $10 per day! Demanding $15/CD from such people are NOT ETHICAL rather it should be considered as EXPLOITATION by the greeds of artists et. al. If you demand such price from these people, they will not pay rather they will invent their own way to listen the music (ie. convert several CDs to MP3 and thus reducing the price).

3. MP3 CDs are much easier to carry (1 MP3 CD is equivalent of 10 Audio CDs at least)!

4. If music industry sees that consumers are willing to pay $15/CD they will increase the price to $20 in next album. If no body buys, then they will be forced to reduce price to $10! So, it's simple economics!

5. Buy CDs of your favorite rock artists/bands and you will see that at least 40% of tracks are already available in other CDs (ie. repeated)! Do you think it is right? Aren't they charging you twice for the same track? Are they ethical?

6. Until recently CD writing/copying techonology was not easily available (at least at your desktop computers). So, music industry charged CDs at their will. Now, because of MP3s and CD copying became so easy, that they have started crying foul. Is this fair?

7. If something is copyrighted, then copying it by any means (either CDA or MP3 or WMA) is illegal. If someone says that music industry has to wind up their business just because of MP3s, that allegation it is simple bull****!

These are all my personal views, anyway.

1. There are audiophiles that can hear the difference, especially with certain types of music (usually classical). CD Quality is not good enough for some people even. And I'm personally for a higher quality audio, even if I can't hear the difference. If I'm going to but something, I want it in the highest quality possible, which is why I'd never buy an MP3 cd. It should be within my fair use rights to make a MP3 cd for my personal use out of music I legally own if I wish.

2. Right, you price for the market. In Japan CDs cost about the equivalent of US $25-30.

3. True, but you can make the MP3 cds yourself and have you're legal high quality sources store at home.

4. There's a marketing theory of pricing and the economic theory of pricing. The economic theory is supply & demand, so high selling titles should actually go down in price (and you can get bigger discounts on them). Marketing theory says price is a selling point - it's why things are priced a penny less than a full dollar. In real life, price lies somewhere between the two.

5. I don't know, I don't buy too much music, and what I do buy happens to be soundtracks.

6. Consumers screwed the record companies big time (think Napster), and now the record companies are trying to screw the consumers big time (DRM). Nobody wins.

7. We need to get people to obey copyright and the companies to respect fair use rights, IMHO.

[DiGiTaIErRoR]

The record companies never got screwed. They're making as much money as they ever did.

What lack of invidual sales subtracts, inflation adds then some.

They're just mad because they lose potential profit. Which is not potential at all.

As people say, if they didn't get it in mp3 form, they would simply get it another way.

I.e. friend's CD, copy to a casette, radio record to a casette, etc. etc.

Stop whining.

[AirScape17]

And I'm personally for a higher quality audio, even if I can't hear the difference

this makes no sense!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sbasak]

MP3s coded in 192 kbps or 224 kbps have really high quality audio yet file size 1/5th of WAV files!

I can't agree that record companies are losing money. They always want more money! They're just afraid that their profit will go down that's why they speak of ethics & copyright!

Have a nice music... :cool:

[si_the_geek]

Originally posted by DiGiTaIErRoR
Sourcecode and the result are two different things.

Programs perform functions. They have a value. Sourcecode can be edited to allow for further functionality.

Are you saying music has no value? It's function may not be the same as programs, but it does have functionality.

Think of the entertainment value - I don't know about you, but I think that something that entertains me for several hours (or even hundreds of hours depending on the CD in question) is worth a similar amount to something else that entertains you to a similar degree for the same amount of time. (whether this is going to the pub, bowling, cinema etc).

So again: does that mean you'll give away all the programs you'll ever write? if not, why do you expect people in other proffesions to do it?

[DiGiTaIErRoR]

I buy CDs.

I also d/l MP3s. Which I may or may not have license to. :p

I think artists would care more about people enjoying their music than another million added to their already tens of millions.

[poopyman67]

You know, even if mp3s had not come around, people would still find some way to bootleg songs. Its like sotware, videos, and everything, else, when theres a will, theres a way!!! I mean think about it. In China, Mexico, and many other countries bootleging is probably the main source of income for some, and the onlything others can afford!! If the music labels were so intent apon making impossible to copy the music, I think they would have tried alot harder than taking a magic marker, and outlining the edge of the CD. I think they actually want us to bootleg songs to some extent. This is ludicrous, you say, but think about it. Bootleged music is never the same quality that it comes in legally, so if people really want the songs, they'll buy them, and by having people bootlegging to their songs, more people listen to the music. Its like a second(actaully a third, if you want to count internet radio) radio for the labels. Most people just download songs to sample them, and if they like it, they buy the CD. Now theres always an exception to the rule, but I think that in the long run, the labels are probably going to make more money, I think they just want something to whine about!

Im John Stossel, and I say, "GIVE ME A BREAK!!!"
(Just Kidding, Im not John Stossel):D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[DiGiTaIErRoR]

I can get you any song, within reason, at or above CD quality.

:rolleyes:

[parksie]

I don't think you can get it above CD-quality...you might, if you have contacts, be able to find a 48KHz version of it, but that would normally be internal to the recording studio.

[DiGiTaIErRoR]

I can get beyond 320 kbps.

Easily.

[parksie]

Yes, but there is no way to get it above CD quality when it's released on CD to start with!

[Keger]

Artist gets about 2$ per CD but they have other costs so we are not saving music with our money. Also some bands never make it because they dont get exposure.

My personel complaints......
-15$ per CD .... When I want 1 or 2 songs Per CD
-In the car I need a 6 disk player to have 10-12 songs that I
truly like.....

Solution.... continue to copy mp3s until recording industry dies....
This will happen anyway because mp4 or other will be along soon......
Then start local mp3 servers that anyone can access and download music they like for 50 cents per song (or whatever).
I would pay that.... I think most of us would... Have those connected to a national\world servce that keeps track of downloads per song and do those on MTV, VH1 etc.... Money directly to artist!! with little over head and we are all happy....
Actual best songs recognised and we get more and better choices....

[DiGiTaIErRoR]

Who's going to pay to d/l when you can d/l free?

[poopyman67]

I waaaay to cheap to pay for something I can get for free, unless I know that that thing is nowhere near as good or will cause problems for me.

[The Hobo]

I never even use CDs. I just download music and listen to it.

If they had some kind of purchase program online that gave you rights to the music, I'd probably pay for it, granted it's not as expensive as CDs.

But I don't see the purpose in buying something I'd just rip off and put on the computer anyways.

[CaptainPinko]

Originally posted by kleptos
I look at it like this, i wouldnt have paid for the CD anyways, so they arent really loosing my money. They never had it.

who wants to pay for a cd of crap w/ one good song? if they ban it i'll just tape it off the radio again... its just less effort