For all the people that hate Microsoft

[Zej]

YOU SUCK is what I say to all of the
low-life's who hate MS. If it weren't for them,
you'd still be using some pretty crappy OS's, with
the exception of UNIX, which is only for advanced
users who use it anyway.

After reading a fourm (Like the OS one) a lot of
idiots think so.(I wont mention names, but if you want to see them, go to the "Making your Own Operating System" topic
and read the FIRST message and many more too)

Well if that's the way how you guys feel, I say you should
get your jealous ass out of here because guess what, MS
made the VB you're using. They made the whole Visual
Studio some of you are using AND they made the most
popular Operating System that you are using!! If you want
to see the real suckers, just go look in the mirror, because
it's you.

For the intelligent people who are not jealous of MS,
good for you. Without them, the whole computer industry
would be a pile of trash.

Thanks for reading.

[Nitro]

Oh my God!

Mr. Zej!

Finally, someone who thinks like me. I really ****en, ****en hate those who complains about Microsoft too. Similar, I think if it wasn't for Microsoft, we would not be sitting here today.

I do admit Microsoft have alot of bugs but their accomplishments are way above. Who is perfect in life? People in general just like to complain. Hum! Ironically, that is what I am doing.

I notice most of the people who complains about Microsoft are the ones who are not good at the product or won't spend the time to research on it. It is just their easy way out to say they don't suck!

There is a guy at my company who thinks Microsoft sucks but at the same time he thinks a college degree is just a piece of paper. He might be right, but he also don't have a degree. At the sametime, he can't tell me why it sucks. "Easy and Lazy man way out!"

Have you ever notice so many big companies, that are one notch below, hates Microsoft. It is call JEALOUSY!!!

This is just my opinion. So, please don't be offended by this posting.

[kedaman]

Can't help people hate things, especially OS, like Windows. I agree with people that thinks the windows interface is boring, but I also agree with people that thinks the world woudn't come this far without MS. So I think a shell replacement should solve the problem

[Sam Finch]

Oh good, I thought everyone hated microsoft just because Bill Gates has too much money, Good on him.

I don't like the way all microsoft help systems tell you how great the products are rather than how to use them.

Other than that without microsoft we'd probably still have to install a printer driver for every piece of software we use and every program would have a completley different UI which would piss me off

Either that or we'd all be using macs and complaining that whoever owns them and I HATE Macs.

[Jimlin41]

I don't hate Microsoft but I have A LOT of complaints about Windows. I actually like Microsoft's products because they usually run faster than the competitor's. Take MSIE for example. MSIE 5 runs faster, loads faster, and operates more smoothly than Netscape. NS crashes a lot (at least once every two days) on my computer too. I also think Visual Basic is the best thing that's happened for programmers since the invention of C.
What I don't like about Windows is it's crappy documentation. I don't like going online to a forum everytime some error happens on my computer. Two of my hobbies are computer hardware and programming. I really hate how Microsoft is beginning to "simplify" everything. I'd really like to see an option during the Windows install for advanced or beginner users. I'm not saying I'm an expert, but I'd really like to skip some of those options designed for beginners.

[SteveCRM]

I like Microsoft, they gave us VB, I just hope this case against them doesn't hurt anything that has to do with VB or programming! And for people that are angry at bill gates because he has too much money...your just jealous that he can hold more in his pocket that you will ever see in your life. Remember, he donates MILLIONS to charity.

I think people who hate microsoft are really cool, they belong in SUN, where they can Burn Worse then hell cause these cool people suck ass more than my neighbor's dog, PEOPLE WHO HATE MICROSOFT SHOULD BE PUNISHED TILL ALL ETERNITY, You're not forced to use Windows, you're not forced to use VB you're not forced to DO ANYTHING that you don't want, Hey **** you if you don't wanna use windows, go use some other mother ****** OS... You're free to do so, BUT guess what you don't want to do that, do you, because you'll miss all the nice little stuff that microsoft put in the OS and how easy it is and how all the games are made for Windows.. I think you people are really ******* stupid.. WINDOWS IS NOT BAD! WIndows is ONE HELL OF A GOOD OS, the best I"ve seen so far, MAC SUX ASS!!!... You people are just plain ignorant... if I put myself into microsoft's chair, I would be ******* doing the same thing, NO DIFFERENT, the ******* point of a buisness is to make money and become number one, and all of you dumb ***** hate that because microsoft is NUMBER 1 no matter what ******* jurry decides that they're not, and no matter what happens, MICROSOFT WILL ALWAYS RELEASE STUFF THAT'S MORE ADVANCED, look at netscape, I think it's the worst browser I've seen in my entire life, I downloaded it, and I ******* deleted it in less then 3 seconds... the load time, oh my god, **** that ****... MICROSOFT RULES <snip>

[Edited for language by James - 04/08 ]

[Sam Finch]

I think we should Email this to Bill, It might cheer him up about his company being split up and sued

[kedaman]

I wonder why anyone (I think there are tons of those, maybe 90% of windows users) don't dare to complain about what we are just posting here. I thought there were more windows-haters than the worlds population in 2048

[RavenCrow]

I prefer linux to windows but I do like VB. This is purely my own preference and why people get into this hate like thing I have no Idea because we are all different. As they say "Different strokes for different folks". BTW The makers of delphi is supporting linux now in their new delphi but I haven't seen Microsoft ever trying to lift a finger to further development by supporting other companies. All they ever do is take over that what they want and don't give a $@#% for others. I don't hate the os, I hate the people behind the os's philosphy but thats just my point of view and you have the right to your own.

RavenCrow, you do have a good point, but why should Microsoft support other comapnies? As WildGhost said, The point of business is to make money and become number one, which, in a sense, is true. Microsoft shouldn't give slag for other companies. Why should they help others out? They are in competition!

[RavenCrow]

Megatron, that's why I said that I don't like Microsofts phylosophy. To me money doesn't mean everything. To me the most important is to learn, experience and grow and help others to do the same. As they say, "Two heads are better then one". Instead of Microsoft and Sun Microsystem standing together and bringing us the best automated home, they prefer to quibble over who's protocols are the rule which in the end mean that there would be even more incompatibilities between automated homes then what would have been if they just stood together. He who lives for himself, will find he has much less friends then he who helps other be as strong as himself. Thats my view in life.

[Jimlin41]

RavenCrow, I don't think that Microsoft should team up with their competitors. Competition means choices for the consumer and it also usually means more advancements in that certain industry. If MS didn't have to compete with Linux and MacOS, the consumer might be stuck with Windows 95 SP15 instead of 98 and 2k ME. People might say that 98 and 2k don't have that many advancements over 95 and they'd be right, but there are actually a lot of good additions. Win 98 supports USB ports without a patch. There's even MORE integration between MSIE and the desktop (sigh...) and driver installation has never been easier (sometime's it's more annoying). Those are the only ones I can think of right now.... but I know there's a lot more. If Linux suddenly started becoming incredibly user friendly with tons of hardware AND software support, MS would need to start working on more updates and fixes so Windows can compete. That's why markets need competition. (remember that whole anti-trust thing?) ;-)

[RavenCrow]

I agree with the fact that competition is good Jimlin41 but there is a point when it gets more distructive then doing any good. You are right about linux not being so user friendly yet but the fact that they have survived (and are being sold more then Windows 98 in china) still puts a bit of pressure on MS not to slack down. MS almost makes it impossible for competition to be able to exist (wich is what the court case is all about). Competition is good but as soon as you trie to "kill" your competition rather then seeing it as a means of developing further, it becomes sadistic. Our company put another company out of business because they were still dodling with technology of 10 years old and not because we shut the door on them by making it impossible for theyre apps to run on computers that has our apps on it (which by the way they tried to do to us by distributing dll's which our installation couldn't overwrite and with which our app could not function). If Apple had trade marked theyre spreadsheet program (Apple invented spreadsheeting), no one would be able to manufacture a product like X-cell or lotus 1-2-3. But instead Apple saw it as a means of developing the technology further. Anyway, enough of this, to each his own and may the path you choose to follow lead you to happiness.

[Jimlin41]

You make some good points there RavenCrow and happy trails to you too.

[Wen Lie]

Well...

I don't think that we should argue about this. At my own side, I love Microsoft products. Yeah, run faster and more compatible with Intel h/w products. And one more thing, Microsoft launch update faster than other products.

But, we can't blame others who hate Microsoft too, yeah, you don't know the reason why they do that. But, one thing for sure is, life is full of competition, full of ego, and other similar things. So, I think, let them do whatever they wanna do. But, we also do whatever we wanna do.

Let them (the one who hate Microsoft) to find what they love. But, for us who love Microsoft a lot, just keep ourselves with Microsoft.

Remember, life is full of competition atmosphere. We have to fight with each other, just like what Microsoft do, to compete with other products.



BRgds,
Wen Lie

Sam you got it right. Before Windows..spent like for ever writing printer drivers for bold, underline, etc etc etc.

Windows enforced a standard on the business desktop...allowing...alot of other companies to develop products and launch them selves. Where would Sheridan, GreenTree et al be without the Windows API standard.

Now having said that l agree with some other points here, we support Unix/Pick/Mac Os sites as well as Windows. Each has advantages for there own segment of the market.

Go Borland with your Linux port of Delphi. Maybe some of the people hammering MS will disappear over there. Eventually they will learn....business don't want Linux. You think the "I Love You" bug was costly. Image you are a hacker with the source code to the actual OS kernal!!!!!!

Having survived the 80s unix battles, SendMail, FTP and TCP/IP bugs allowing hackers to burn systems, l am perfectly haoppy in a MS world.

Go Bill, kick their arses.

[Paul282]

I like VB
I Love Standards in Any industry
I understand that MS created many of those standards

...SO?

Do I like MS? Not Really. I don't hate them bacause I can't be bothered.

I don't like when companies have monopolies. and I HATE when companies abuse their monopolies to force out competitors.

You are all saying "I like the company that goes up to vendors and says 'If you install competing software on YOUR computers that YOU make then we won't license any software to you and you'll go bankrupt' "

This happened, more than once, Intel have done the same.

I say "CUT THEM IN HALF" No more of this coding secrets into the OS so Office runs better! or financially squeezing small comapanies! garbage. (Intel used to have a policy that they take everyone who sells a competing product to court so that the court costs force then out of business, even if they are wrong)

People say "IT's their OS they should be able to do what they like!" NO! They have a monopoly and they've broken anti trust laws, they forfeit that right by law

Not many people can doubt that MS management have been amply rewarded for their contribution to the industry.

But now they contribute to the detriment of smaller competitors.

I like VB
I like Windows
Linux suporters annoy me like Mac supporters used to
But I don't like large corporations like MS who use their power to break the law.

Cut 'em up. They've proved that they won't listen.

You don't have to like MS to like Windows

[Gen-X]

Before I add my 2c worth I just want to know which operating systems people have used before.

I will give you a list of some of the better known ones and see what answers I get back.

Oh and I hope all the people who quoted in here reply.

1. MS Dos (any version)
2. Windows 3.1
3. Windows 95/98
4. Windows 2000
5. Windows NT
6. OS/Warp
7. Mac OS
8. Amiga OS
9. Unix (BSD)
10. Unix (SCO)
11. Linix
12. Sun OS
13. XWindows

Please feel free to add to the list.

But basicially I want to know what your experience is for basing your statements on.

[Paul282]

We're to be judged are we?

OK,

MS DOS up to 6.22 (didn't we love running games in 640k.... NOT)
DR-DOS (sued MS for ripping off drivespace)
Windows 3.1 / 3.11
Windows 95/98
Windows NT
Windows 2K
OS/2 (Briefly, hated it)
TRS80 Basic OS, loved that system ;-)
Linux Redhat 5.1 to 6.1
Solarus 2.6
Atari ST (simlar to Mac)
Mac Os 7.5 (briefly, hated it, but not as much as I hated OS/2)

For the Unix / linux shells, X11's etc
-Xfree86 3.3.1 -> 3.3.5
-Bash
-C-Shell
-CDE (SUN)


[Edited by Paul282 on 06-09-2000 at 01:31 AM]

[Gen-X]

Thank you paul.

From your reply I can see you have actually used multiple different Operating Systems... which means you have at least been able to compare the pro's and con's of each system.

Your answer to Microsoft then has weight in that you haven't JUST used windows and decided it was the best and hate anyone who complains otherwise.

I HATE people (usually snotty nosed little butt-wipes), who only started programming last year, have never used anything BUT Windows95 and then try to say its the best operating system around and all Mac users suck and all Unix users are idiots.

I have used all of these OS and I can see the advantages/disadvantages to each of them.

One thing I have to say with MS and their Windows product however is that they had both the MEANS, the TECHNOLOGY and the MONEY to be able to produce an Operating System to an amazing level of efficiency and reliability....

And the result has been Windows

Based on the fact they had the monopoly AND the resorces they had no consideration for the users, did not care less if their product ACTUALLY did what it was supposed to do... and instead concentrated on making sure you HAD to install it on every computer in existence so they kept their market share.

Take for instance the release of Windows95. It wasn't until Win95 Version D that their original promises made for Version A were actually complied to, it wasn't out on time (neither was Win98 OR Win2000), it required several patches and fixes and wasn't compatible with existing applications or dedicated software.

At the very LEAST when Apple Machintosh releases a new version of their software it meets the claims they stated, runs all old software (within reason and moreso than MS), and doesn't have a tendancy to crash every could of minutes.

Microsoft could have taken their time, input the money and the resources into making Windows the ONLY operating system people WANTED to choose instead of forcing them to choose it by Large Company badgering rather than the merits of the product itself.

THAT is why people hate Microsoft... They don't hate windows or the products... they hate the fact that a company as large as this does NOT didicate itself to producing bigger and better software... but instead dedicates itself into achieving a larger chunk of the market while pushing out the BARE MINIMUM required to stop people from completely leaving their company and going to work on a Unix box.

If those people who hate those who hate microsoft have any problems with this then I challenge you to quote for me all the operating systems you have used before making your comments.... let your knowledge and your experience speak WITH you instead of your ignorance and inexperience.

[markwestcott]

Do you people think that it was not for Micro$oft's fluke by of QDOS (Quick and Dirty Operating System as it was called by its maker), we would really be sitting at command prompts, or crappy OS'? NO! DOS wasnt microsoft product, a GUI was not their idea. They were not the first people to implement a GUI, infact, they stole the idea of a gui, like they stole everything else. Just look at half microsofts products. How many times is there a 'copyright someone else' in microsofts about dialog. Just look at IE 'based on NCSA Mosiac' So that isnt theres. Direct X was bought in its early stages by microsoft from a london based company. Microsoft do nothing themselves. Scandisk, Imaging, Defrag ALL BY DIFFERENT PEOPLE!

Right I've had a good shout now. THe only reason I still use microsoft windows (and thats their only product I use) is because hard ware manufactures have been to slow of there arses to release drivers, as have software companies to port software.

[Crazy D]

Of course people complain, that's human nature. Not many people say something when they like it, only when they dislike.
And Windows isn't that bad, it did a lot of good things for computer market. But, after a 4rd crash in a row (and I wasn't even programming or running one of my own programs, only some M$ products) I can't help it that I say "bloody M$ you suck". At least Linux doesn't crash that often.
But the main reason I still use Windows is because I don't want to spend a lot of time on the OS, I run an OS to do certain things, and my experience with Linux is that I have to do too much work to make the OS run the way I want it.
Sure, Windows needs some install time too (and it might be the more experience I have with Windows that installing goes faster then with Linux), but for me that's the main reason to use Windows.
Of course they did a lot of good things, and it made computing a thing normal people (not nerds...) can use (even my stephdad can use Windows, although he doesn't know how to copy a file from floppy...). That's a good thing I think. But it's not such a great thing that certain bugs are still not fixed. That's a huge advantage of Linux, since it's open source, a lot of people try to fix the bug themselves when they find one and spread it to other users. But that's nothing against M$, that's only something against closed source stuff.
And if you don't like Windows for whatever reason, either stop using it (there's enough alternatives), or, if you *must* use it, stop complaining. It doesn't help anyway.
Oh and the saying "a company doesn't want Linux, imagine a hacker with the source code of the kernel" is bull. Why do you think most webservers are running Linux? Not because they want an OS that's so easy to hack, if they would want that they would use Win95 first release....
Hmm now I did say a lot more then I wanted to say :-)
Oh and it wouldn't be a bad idea if M$ would make software for Linux. It would show they are not ignorant, and accept competition. (oh, once they split up, Linux is no longer competition for the non-OS group of M$, so... )

[Paul282]

The first GUIs were invented by Xerox, and Steve Jobs saw it and ripped it off for the MAC!

And it wasn't just M$ that made the PC dominant, the PC had more software than the mac and that was mainly because of IBM (lotus 123 etc)

I wouldn't give MS too much credit for the world we live in!

Then of course there is Intel

So why should M$ have the monopoly when the industry has proved that it can stand on it's own two feet?

CUT M$ UP! Let Ideas rule, not Money!!!!

I like Windows,
I don't like Microsoft

I think Zej should read a bit more history of the PC and computing before he jumps on the MS band wagon and starts shouting slurs

Where would IE be if there was no Netscape as a competitor? No there is almost no competition and IE is not getting any better.

Competition drives inovation
Customers money drives standards

MS drives good startup businesses out of business
...And Zej Drives me up the wall

[Paul282]

I think I'll take the Bong at home!

Bit tired or working truth to tell

Johnnie black'd be better though

[Edited by Paul282 on 06-09-2000 at 03:35 AM]

[gfk]

Originally posted by Paul282
So why should M$ have the monopoly when the industry has proved that it can stand on it's own two feet?

CUT M$ UP! Let Ideas rule, not Money!!!!

I like Windows,
I don't like Microsoft

How would you feel if you built up your own company from the ground, which eventually went on to totally dominate such a large industry, only to be told that you're too good and you have to demolish your company? They've got that big because their products are better than anyone else's.

If someone other than Microsoft released an earth-shattering program, people would use that instead of the Microsoft equivalent. If they DIDN'T use it, then it probably wasn't so earth-shattering after all.

Let's face it, if Bill Gates came up with the idea of dividing Microsoft into various pieces, he'd be investigated for ****ing tax-dodging.

Microsoft is OK. Yeah their products have bugs, but, tell me the name of a program that DOESN'T.

Bill Gates getting a pie in the face was v. funny tho.



PS. Can I just point out that if Microsoft didn't exist, you wouldn't have Visual Basic and this forum wouldn't exist... unless it was called 'pizza-world.com' or something...

[Paul282]

I said twice before I like windows and I like VB.

I think their API is an amazing piece of software engineering

BUT, If I created a huge company that broke anti-trust laws continuously and whenever remedies are suggested I ignore them because I think what I'm doing is more important - then I deserve everything I get.

How does a criminal feel when goes to jail?

Of course Billy is going to be upset and he has every right to fight the decision. But it's not about Billy, it's about microsoft.

Other companies get hit with anti-trust penalties, most don't get broken up, but then most don't continue to flagrantly break the law.

Windows will still be here when the dust settles
Billy will still be rich
and I'll still be programming in VB (but with a bigger smile because for once MS didn't win, they finally met a bigger fish that they couldn't drown with their OS monoply -although not for lack of trying)

"If you screw us it'll hurt the whole industry !!"

-funny, everyone else in the industry doesn't seem to think so!

[Judd]

People have made some good (and some not so good) points here. I personally have nothing against MS or Windows - in fact I think MS are being unfairly targetted with the anti-trust thing.

Don't get me wrong, it's most likely they did break the law, but they aren't the first company to behave the way they have and I think their size just makes them a (literally) bigger target.

Paul, you live in Japan, surely you appreciate the way that the Japanese megacorps have total control over which foreign companies get a foothold in Japan? (it usually being the foreign companies they own). I also think you are overestimating the effect that splitting MS will have (if and when it ever happens, there are years of appeals to go yet). MS-OS and MS-Software will still manipulate and coerce the market. I can't see anyway the courts can legally stop too companies co-operating if they want to. OK, so the 'bundling' issues will be solved, but things like those 'tricks' to make Office run faster on Windows will still exist.

Business is business - and it will never be entirely legal.

Just my thoughts.

[Paul282]

No arguements!

You won't find me defending any part of Japan's corporate structure. There are many things about Japan I like but it's corporate and govt corruption is not among them. Not that the Australian Gov't is any good either, 'cause it sux the big one too!

I shall finish with a SouthPark Quote

"You DIE, You ganna burn in hell and DIE"
-Mr Hat

Love that show!

...yawn... be heading off home for a scotch soon I think. Nice talking to you all again.

O-Tsukaresama Deshita ...

[Bill Gates]

Well this thread certainly makes interesting reading!

[Gary.Lowe]

if it makes me money and I can use it (Sometimes)

BRING IT ON

[Paul282]

The truth is that people seem to be forgetting something very important.

...take yourself awfully serious, who appointed you god?

I think I'll go back to the question threads. This thread's gone from an amusing debate to a call to the self-righteous.

Hopefully you're excuse is that it's early in the morning and you've had too much to drink.

Ciao

[AndyC]

Overall i like microsoft... It's Windows 95 & Windows 98 I have the problem with, they are always crashing BUT yes windows is better. The best thing microsoft did was made Windows NT it NEVER crashes if you have the right drivers. I say SCREW WINDOWNS 9X GO NT!!! They just need to make NT(now windows 2000) more compatable with Direct X (if it even has it) so that's what i think...

[Eiredrake]

Why... Overlord Gates did of course.

Eiredrake

Andy. If you do not have Networked computer's, it's better to use Windows 9X than NT.

[NeilAvent]

hey! This is an intense discussion. My opinion is that as a whole Microsoft does produce good quality software, NOT the best in the world but good enough for us to do our jobs instead of going back to paper based systems!

I dont agree with a lot of the choices Microsoft have made, but should that really influence the consumer? In a capatalist environment the consumer should spend his pounds(or dollars) on whatever will give the greatest return. Obviously there can be reservations on where the money goes although Microsoft appear to treat the competiton harshly they dont appear to support terrorists or other organisations which should make you not support them.

Incidentally I was understanding Microsoft only had a 50% stake in VB. Corel having the other 50% even though it was marketed under Microsofts name. I could be wrong though...

Have used:

Dos versions 3 through 6.2, fine for desktop apps
Windows 3x, 95,98,Nt4 excellent stuff
Unix Sco,Aix,Solarius, exellent for medium to large scale businees apps
Pick R83, AP, D3, very underated
Universe
PrimeOS
MAC OS, what a load of crap, caren't get to the operating systm level. What are they trying to hide???? Besides version 10 is unix in drag.
Linux, enough said a unix wannabee. Use it at home to learn Unix. Gee those GUIs are more Windows than Windows.

Paul282,

Apple used to take competitors to court as well to protect the MAC GUI. Ask Hewlett Packard why they never developed a Windows style interface.

Microsoft are being broken into two. Yippee now the rest of us can mauybe get a look at the specs for Windows which never get published, or at least get published a couple of years after MS has implemented them in word etc.

[Yonatan]

You're probably not going to believe this AT ALL, but I have sources, and this is Bill Gates' REAL E-MAIL ADDRESS:

[email protected]

This address is probably taken from the Microsoft website, but I'm not even going to start trying to find out if it's there. Too tired to be hurled away into the abyss called their website.

P.S.
I like Microsoft except for the whole monopoly thing... Many will agree with me, or have already done so.

Already l can feel those spam programs starting up. Now if we also had John Howards'

[REM]

I agree with u lot on Microsoft being a good company. I am pissed off at an American judges recent ruling that Microsoft has to be split up into two seperate companies. It is absolutely outrageous...

Bill Gates built Microsoft up from the start, with Microsoft developing the worlds most popular operating system. Now, if other people from other software companies are gonna mone and whinge at what they call 'sneaky tactics', which is actually just business, then i think they should just sit back and take a look at themselves... I think they will find they are pretty jealous.

What other companies claim to be 'sneaky' tactics is just general good business. If they were in Bill Gate's and Microsoft's position in the market, they would be doing >>EXACTLY<< the same thing, trying to earn more and more money... Which is business

If you can't handle the heat, then get outta the kitchen

Laterz

REM